Our aim is to conform our beliefs to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church under the patronage of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

You are not connected. Please login or register

Medjugorje: The United States Relations To The Holy See

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]



November 6, 2013

Our Lady For Life yields our fullest submission to the
Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and to the Bishop of Mostar, regarding the alleged apparitions of Medjugorje, as they continue to pray and discern.  We are not experts.  Rather we trust The Church.  Currently our commentary on Medjugorje solely rests in obedience, trust, and prudence.  Above all, we remain in peace.  Jesus and Blessed Mother love each one of us. Selah!

U.S. Relations With the Holy See

Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs

Fact Sheet

October 31, 2013

More information about the Holy See is available on the Holy See Page and from other Department of State publications and other sources listed at the end of this fact sheet.


The Holy See is the universal government of the Catholic Church and operates from Vatican City State, a sovereign, independent territory. The Pope is the ruler of both Vatican City State and the Holy See. The Holy See, as the supreme body of government of the Catholic Church, is a sovereign juridical entity under international law. The United States and the Holy See consult and cooperate on international issues of mutual interest, including human rights, inter-religious understanding, peace and conflict prevention, development, and environmental protection.

The United States maintained consular relations with the Papal States from 1797 to 1870 and diplomatic relations with the Pope, in his capacity as head of the Papal States, from 1848 to 1868, though not at the ambassadorial level. These relations lapsed in 1870 with the loss of all papal territories during the unification of Italy. From 1870 to 1984, the United States did not have diplomatic relations with the Holy See. Several U.S. presidents, however, designated personal envoys to visit the Holy See periodically for discussions of international humanitarian and political issues. In 1984, a revised Concordat was signed defining the relations between the government and the church within Italy. The United States and the Holy See announced the establishment of diplomatic relations in 1984.

Source: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3819.htm

Last edited by Our-Lady-Of-Victory on Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:06 am; edited 7 times in total

Lord, you pour out blessings and lovingkindness on me before I can even ask. And you offer more than I could even conceive of asking. -King David, Psalm 21



[Only admins are allowed to see this image]195

21 October 2013

Apostolic Nunciature United States of America
PN 3980

Reverend Monsignor Jenkins,

I write at the request of His Excellency, the Most Reverend Gerhard Ludwig Mueller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who asks, that the Bishops of the United States be advised, once again, of the following, (cf. my letter of 27 February 2013, of the same protocol number). Thus His Excellency wishes to inform the Bishops that one of the so-called visionaries, Mr. Ivan Dragicevic, is scheduled to appear at certain parishes around the country, during which he will make presentations regarding the phenomenon of Medjugorje.  It is anticipated, moreover, that Mr Dragicevic, will be receiving "apparitions" during these scheduled appearances. 

As you all are well aware, the Congregation Of The Doctrine Of The Faith, is in the process of investigating certain doctrinal and disciplinary aspects of the phenomenon of Medjugorje. For this reason, the Congregation has affirmed that, with regard to the credibility of the "apparitions" in question, all should accept the declaration, dated 10 April 1991, from the Bishops of the former Republic of Yugoslavia, which asserts, "On the basis of the research that has been done, it is not possible to state that there were apparitions or supernatural revelations." It follows, therefore, that clerics and the faithful are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such "apparitions" would be taken for granted.

In order, therefore, to avoid scandal and confusion, Archbishop Muller asks that the Bishops be informed of this matter as soon as possible.

I present this opportunity to present to you my sentiments of profound esteem, and remain,

Sincerely yours in Christ,
+ Carlo Maria Vigano
Apostolic Nuncio

Monsignor Ronny Jenkins
General Secretary of the USCCB
3211 Fourth Street NE
Washington, DC 20017

Source:  Washington D.C., Nov 6, 2013 / 09:14 am (CNA/EWTN News).-

The Bold and red color are my own emphasis for the purpose of clear spiritual direction to the catholics, from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Bishop of Mostar.

At the direction of the Vatican's head for doctrine, the apostolic nuncio to the U.S. has written a letter stating that Catholics “are not permitted” to participate in meetings which take for granted that the supposed Marian apparitions in Medjugorje are credible.

Arrow“The Congregation (for the Doctrine of the Faith) has affirmed that, with regard to the credibility of the 'apparitions' in question, all should accept the declaration … which asserts:

'On the basis of the research that has been done, it is not possible to state that there were apparitions or supernatural revelations,'” Archbishop Carlo Vigano wrote in an Oct. 21 letter to the bishops of the U.S., sent to the general secretary of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Arrow“It follows, therefore, that clerics and the faithful are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such 'apparitions' would be taken for granted.”

CNA confirmed that the letter was sent to every diocese in the U.S.

Archbishop Vigano wrote the letter “at the request” of Archbishop Gerhard Mueller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The Oct. 21 letter was evidently following up on one sent Feb. 27.

ArrowThe nuncio wrote that Archbishop Mueller “wishes to inform” the U.S. bishops that Ivan Dragicevic, one of the “so-called visionaries” of Medjugorje, is scheduled to give presentations at parishes across the country, and is anticipated to have more apparitions during these talks.

The visions of Medjugorje refer to a series of alleged Marian apparitions that begin in 1981 in what is now Bosnia.

In 1991, the bishops of the former Yugoslavia had determined that it is not possible to say there were Marian apparitions at the site. In 2010, the Vatican established a commission to further investigate “doctrinal and disciplinary aspects of the phenomenon of Medjugorje.”

Arrow  Because that commission is still in the process of its investigation, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has established that the judgment of the Yugoslavian bishops be accepted.

“To avoid scandal and confusion,” wrote Archbishop Vigano, “Archbishop Mueller asks that the Bishops be informed of this matter as soon as possible.”

Last edited by Our-Lady-Of-Victory on Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total

Lord, you pour out blessings and lovingkindness on me before I can even ask. And you offer more than I could even conceive of asking. -King David, Psalm 21

3 In All Fairness on Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:53 pm



We can't be totally certain yet, however, according to what we are able to make out,  a final decision by the Vatican Commission on Medjugorje , headed by  Cardinal  Camillo Ruini might be expected/anticipated  some time in 2014.


Furthermore, it can become necessary at critical points in time to pull in on the reins a little (sometimes more than "a little") to ensure we don't let ourselves get ahead of either the Church's authority or directive on these matters . Considering the unique case of Medjugorje (to anyone who has truly tried to study the events and live the messages, most of all by praying ) it is not possible to deny that  there is a copious amount of disinformation which ends up getting disseminated both by its opponents and by those spreading well-intentioned (often misinformed) misinterpretations.

Over and above all of that, no matter how firmly we may believe any private revelation at all , if we don't remain obedient to the Church's authority  , whatever happens next will be compromised. As long as Church authority is not being abused in a way which would make us sin if we were to obey, in the final analysis, it comes down to obedience , which is a virtue most pleasing to our loving Lord :

A virtue embraced and personified by Our Blessed Mother :  "I am the handmaid of the Lord - be it done unto me according to your word."

or, one may equally say ,

A virtue despised by the Evil One
: "Non serviam."

Ultimately , those are our two choices and the virtue of obedience becomes either a cornerstone or a stumbling block for every single one of us.

In all fairness , let us note that , according to the information on hand , once the CDF promulgated Most Reverend Gerhard Ludwig Mueller's letter of October 21, 2013 via the Apostolic Nuncio , it does appear that those who are foremost addressed in said letter - specifically, those responsible for organizing the sponsored  engagements featuring an appearance of Ivan Dragicevic - have responded with immediate obedience.

A little snippet of an excerpt from Spirit Daily :

". . . Just two weeks later, however, on October 26, a planned appearance of visionary Ivan Dragičević, was abruptly canceled at St. Richard Church in Danvers, Massachusetts, and the next night, October 27, at St. Philip's Church, in Greenville, Rhode Island. According to a well-placed source at one of the parishes, the cancellation came upon receipt of a letter from the bishop citing a directive from the papal nuncio, who is in effect the Pope's ambassador to the U.S. A priest at St. Richard, Father Bruce G. Flannagan, declined comment except to say that the appearance had been canceled "for whatever reason" and that "it is out of our hands."

After poking around on the internet trying to research this topic a little, I can't help but ask myself why so many want to print the letter but forget to include what the most important immediate response to it has been ?

News Flash : The CDF's letter is all about serving its purpose - not someone else's purpose.


[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

We really need to maintain an even keel on the subject of Medjugorje . My vote for the best solid guidance on that particular point within the context of the CDF's most recent letter rests squarely on an article published Nov 8, 2013 . It is written by Dr. Mark Miravalle , professor of Theology and Mariology at Franciscan University of Steubenville . It is entitled "To Medjugorje Followers : Obey and Pray" .

An excerpt and link to the article follow:

To Medjugorje Followers : Obey and Pray

. . . To Medjugorje followers worldwide, I would say: obey and pray. As specified by the Nuncio at the directive of CDF, any Medjugorje “meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such ‘apparitions’ would be taken for granted” should be cancelled until further notice or change of policy by rightful Church authority.

Medjugorje devotees must follow the stellar example of St. Pio during his some ten year prohibition by the Church from saying Mass publicly in light of the temporary Vatican and diocesan rejection of his reported mystical phenomena. During his time of prohibition, Padre Pio never denied the authenticity of his stigmata, bilocation, or other authentically supernatural wonders (how could he?—they were true!).

He simply obeyed.

Recall as well the Church prohibition, both from the local diocese and from the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, of the apparitions of Jesus to St. Faustina, which now constitutes the universally-approved and celebrated Divine Mercy devotion. Such is the sometimes imperfect process of the Church in the difficult task of evaluating what Blessed John XXIII called “those supernatural lights.” This prohibition was finally lifted in 1979 by the intercession of Bl. John Paul II, but only after many years during which Divine Mercy devotees had to obediently cease public celebration or distribution of the heavenly message of God’s infinite mercy.

They too obeyed.

This new restriction (which is nothing like a formal prohibition) can, in fact, become a providential opportunity to show the world that the great majority of Medjugorje followers live and breathe at the heart of the Church, in full obedience to the Church, and are not “fringe fanatics” whose faith hinges only on an alleged apparition, as some critics may at times assert.

The proof is obedience.

To the larger public, I would say: be clear and beware not to take the new restriction for what it is not: a definitive Church statement against Medjugorje’s authenticity. The CDF has a right, for whatever reason, to implement further restrictions while the ongoing Vatican Commission completes its study, which will ultimately go before Pope Francis for final judgment.

But the fact remains, the Church process is not over. Medjugorje has not been declared “constat de non” by the U.S. Nuncio letter, and any conclusion or promulgation at this time that Medjugorje has been officially condemned would be its own form of disobedience to proper Church authority. To do so would be to usurp the role of the CDF and ultimately of Pope Francis himself to make the final discernment of the authenticity of Medjugorje—a critical and historic discernment which belongs to the Church’s Magisterium alone.

Gamaliel had it right: “…If this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be opposing God” (Acts 5:38-39).

Dr. Mark Miravalle


Very Happy

    " . . . you should know that there is present with you the angel whom God has appointed for each man . . . This angel, who is sleepless and cannot be deceived, is always present with you; he sees all things and is not hindered by darkness. You should know, too, that with him is God " . . .   - St. Anthony the Great   

Sponsored content

Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum